While I certainly agree with you, we still have the problem of largely empty churches. This is perplexing as we have, quite literally, the most consumable doctrine of all. For all the celebration of baptisms each Easter, many of those people get discouraged and leave the church within a year. Pew reported last month that, for every one person received into the Catholic Church, another 8.4 individuals have left the faith, either altogether or for another worship tradition. There is a paradigm that many successful parishes have embrace, following the model from Fr. James Mallon's "Divine Renovation," of Belong, Believe, Behave. My parish embarked on this seven years ago and the response has been very positive. If people don't feel at home, loved, and accepted, they will not stick around for all the good that comes from faith. All of the elements of faithful worship are critical but, until the person feels welcome, they are not as effective. I will tell you the primary reason I returned to the Catholic church, rather than another Christian church was that I was accepted and welcomed lovingly every week by people who didn't know me.
That's crazy about how many people leave for every 1 that comes in. I didn't know that. However, I still think that Catholics tend to have people come back to the Church later in life. Looking at some of the converts that I've met or reverts, they come back later in life. Do you have that study? I would like to take a look at it.
Alexis De Tocqueville said that America would eventually become Catholic or Pagan. It certainly seems like we are at this crossroads. Protestants continue to adopt a transhumanist ethic about IVF and Contraception, though that may be turning around.
People are more likely to stay if they feel loved and welcomed, but they also have to be there for Jesus and not the people. It's a balance. This is not an argument to excuse pastors or parishioners being jerks, but only to say that regardless of what denomination you're in, at some point your faith is going to be tested, often by those closest to you.
Absolutely, Jesus and a solid relationship with Him must be most important part of your faith. The issue that I find so often, though, are those 'serious' Catholics who look down on people because they raise their hands during the Our Father or don't genuflect at the right time or a dozen other silly thing that don't really matter. Worshiping God in His home with a family who loves you is the key to a healthy, growing church.
It's gotta be hard for Catholic priests to walk this line though. Especially with things like Hallow, being more of a modernist approach to evangelism and tends to make the church appear more evangelical protestant than it actually is. I think Hallow is an incredible tool by the way, and I think it highlights the timelessness of the faith. I'm not sure you could replicate the same thing with other denominations.
It’s quite funny that you make this point. An article last week talked about the same thing. The Protestant church is lamenting the fact that they are losing so many to the rich theology of the Catholic Church and are looking for counter programming for Formed, Hallow, and others!
yeah, I'm not sure they can actually do it. The Bible App is the closest thing, but that is basically just the digital equivalent of the free devotional handouts that many churches had growing up.
I think it's ironic that the ancient faith seems to be so adaptable to the digital era. :D
“Teaching is not something that can be reasoned to?”
Why not? Did you arrive at Catholicism by throwing darts blindfolded at a comparative religion poster on the wall? “Oh, good, I didn’t want to be Buddhist.”
And I’m not seeing the difference between “recognizing” one truth of Christianity and submitting to it, and the presuppositionalism Dr. Howe excels at refuting.
Indeed, a Calvinist could equally tell you that once you recognize the truth of Calvinism you will submit to it and be Calvinist. It’s a rhetorical trick, not an argument. Richard Howe goes so far (as a joke) as to ask presuppositionalists to presuppose Islam is true, whereupon all their objections to it will melt away
Good to see you on here again Dan. This is the first comment in my thread, so I'll respond to this one first.
You've cut out the full sentence. "Teaching is something that can be reasonable, but not something that can be reasoned to."
This is very much a classical understanding of Truth. It's not something presupposed, but that it is something to be discovered. Revelation is something that can only be imparted to man by God.
If Catholicism claims to be the fullness of the Catholic faith, well someone can investigate that claim, by the methods outlined above. No presuppositionalism required ;)
Dr. Howe says Hi! Think I forgot to pass that along previously.
I think I see where you are going with this post, you’re on to something certainly, but it could be more developed.
One thing you’ve done, although I suspect this was not your aim, is refute certain unworthy Catholic polemics that want to make the multitude of variations of Protestantism all separate faiths, different religions. My counter-argument has been that if there was not a large core of shared belief, it would be very hard to program a Christian radio station, or stock a Christian bookstore, back when we had such things. But your illustration of the observable flexibility people exhibit in choosing a local church does this admirably.
Yes, we should all value theology and doctrine highly. And so many do not.
Although I’m not sure how it can be established who does and does not have a Christian worldview. I’m not blaming your AI program, the Gallup polling result on the question was a similarly low percentage. But since it seems doubtful that the question was, “Do you have a Christian worldview?” Y/N then its fair to wonder what the question or questions actually were.
Yes, you did tell me he said hi! Feel free to tell him I said hi as well!
I agree things could be developed more. I'm just trying to keep up my streak of writing, but unfortunately, I got really sick on Friday. The goal is more to just generate conversation, which it seems to be doing!
I think there is a difference between a Christian business and a Christian church. A business is largely trying to capitalize on the shared Christian culture. In that regard, a Catholic, a Baptist, or a Pentecostal, could all go on Amazon and search for their favorite books under the label "Christian". But we know that those books don't teach the same doctrine.
Doctrine is the domain of the Churches, while businesses indicate a demand in the market, but that demand may or may not be for the truth.
While I certainly agree with you, we still have the problem of largely empty churches. This is perplexing as we have, quite literally, the most consumable doctrine of all. For all the celebration of baptisms each Easter, many of those people get discouraged and leave the church within a year. Pew reported last month that, for every one person received into the Catholic Church, another 8.4 individuals have left the faith, either altogether or for another worship tradition. There is a paradigm that many successful parishes have embrace, following the model from Fr. James Mallon's "Divine Renovation," of Belong, Believe, Behave. My parish embarked on this seven years ago and the response has been very positive. If people don't feel at home, loved, and accepted, they will not stick around for all the good that comes from faith. All of the elements of faithful worship are critical but, until the person feels welcome, they are not as effective. I will tell you the primary reason I returned to the Catholic church, rather than another Christian church was that I was accepted and welcomed lovingly every week by people who didn't know me.
Thanks for reading!
That's crazy about how many people leave for every 1 that comes in. I didn't know that. However, I still think that Catholics tend to have people come back to the Church later in life. Looking at some of the converts that I've met or reverts, they come back later in life. Do you have that study? I would like to take a look at it.
Alexis De Tocqueville said that America would eventually become Catholic or Pagan. It certainly seems like we are at this crossroads. Protestants continue to adopt a transhumanist ethic about IVF and Contraception, though that may be turning around.
People are more likely to stay if they feel loved and welcomed, but they also have to be there for Jesus and not the people. It's a balance. This is not an argument to excuse pastors or parishioners being jerks, but only to say that regardless of what denomination you're in, at some point your faith is going to be tested, often by those closest to you.
Pew's latest study is at https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/02/26/decline-of-christianity-in-the-us-has-slowed-may-have-leveled-off/
Absolutely, Jesus and a solid relationship with Him must be most important part of your faith. The issue that I find so often, though, are those 'serious' Catholics who look down on people because they raise their hands during the Our Father or don't genuflect at the right time or a dozen other silly thing that don't really matter. Worshiping God in His home with a family who loves you is the key to a healthy, growing church.
Yes, I agree.
Thanks for posting the study.
It's gotta be hard for Catholic priests to walk this line though. Especially with things like Hallow, being more of a modernist approach to evangelism and tends to make the church appear more evangelical protestant than it actually is. I think Hallow is an incredible tool by the way, and I think it highlights the timelessness of the faith. I'm not sure you could replicate the same thing with other denominations.
It’s quite funny that you make this point. An article last week talked about the same thing. The Protestant church is lamenting the fact that they are losing so many to the rich theology of the Catholic Church and are looking for counter programming for Formed, Hallow, and others!
yeah, I'm not sure they can actually do it. The Bible App is the closest thing, but that is basically just the digital equivalent of the free devotional handouts that many churches had growing up.
I think it's ironic that the ancient faith seems to be so adaptable to the digital era. :D
And:
“Teaching is not something that can be reasoned to?”
Why not? Did you arrive at Catholicism by throwing darts blindfolded at a comparative religion poster on the wall? “Oh, good, I didn’t want to be Buddhist.”
And I’m not seeing the difference between “recognizing” one truth of Christianity and submitting to it, and the presuppositionalism Dr. Howe excels at refuting.
Indeed, a Calvinist could equally tell you that once you recognize the truth of Calvinism you will submit to it and be Calvinist. It’s a rhetorical trick, not an argument. Richard Howe goes so far (as a joke) as to ask presuppositionalists to presuppose Islam is true, whereupon all their objections to it will melt away
Good to see you on here again Dan. This is the first comment in my thread, so I'll respond to this one first.
You've cut out the full sentence. "Teaching is something that can be reasonable, but not something that can be reasoned to."
This is very much a classical understanding of Truth. It's not something presupposed, but that it is something to be discovered. Revelation is something that can only be imparted to man by God.
If Catholicism claims to be the fullness of the Catholic faith, well someone can investigate that claim, by the methods outlined above. No presuppositionalism required ;)
S i r ~
Dr. Howe says Hi! Think I forgot to pass that along previously.
I think I see where you are going with this post, you’re on to something certainly, but it could be more developed.
One thing you’ve done, although I suspect this was not your aim, is refute certain unworthy Catholic polemics that want to make the multitude of variations of Protestantism all separate faiths, different religions. My counter-argument has been that if there was not a large core of shared belief, it would be very hard to program a Christian radio station, or stock a Christian bookstore, back when we had such things. But your illustration of the observable flexibility people exhibit in choosing a local church does this admirably.
Yes, we should all value theology and doctrine highly. And so many do not.
Although I’m not sure how it can be established who does and does not have a Christian worldview. I’m not blaming your AI program, the Gallup polling result on the question was a similarly low percentage. But since it seems doubtful that the question was, “Do you have a Christian worldview?” Y/N then its fair to wonder what the question or questions actually were.
Have a great weekend!
Yes, you did tell me he said hi! Feel free to tell him I said hi as well!
I agree things could be developed more. I'm just trying to keep up my streak of writing, but unfortunately, I got really sick on Friday. The goal is more to just generate conversation, which it seems to be doing!
I think there is a difference between a Christian business and a Christian church. A business is largely trying to capitalize on the shared Christian culture. In that regard, a Catholic, a Baptist, or a Pentecostal, could all go on Amazon and search for their favorite books under the label "Christian". But we know that those books don't teach the same doctrine.
Doctrine is the domain of the Churches, while businesses indicate a demand in the market, but that demand may or may not be for the truth.