What do you think? I know there are Protestants that disagree with the Protestants in these videos. How do you think Protestants can get back on the same page on these ethical issues.
Thanks for reading! Don't forget to hit the like button (❤️)
Baptist, here. Isn't one of the conditions for a sin to be mortal is knowledge that it's a sin? If so, would that give some leeway to a Christian who was taught that something like masterbation was okay in certain circumstances?
Regardless, I appreciate the moral clarity the Catholic Church provides on sexual matters and in other areas, and wish more churches were like that.
The point you're bringing up is referenced in paragraph 1860 of the catechism:
"Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense" but right after that it also says this, "But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man."
Many Catholics fail to fully communicate the risks associated with Protestants being outside the Church and the sins they are encouraged to commit. That is because they tend to completely ignore the Churches teaching on conscience, which is an individuals responsibility to cultivate. If a person does not seek the truth, that too can be a mortal sin.
If you go back a few paragraphs in the Catechism it says in paragraph 1859,
"Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knoweldge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law." Note, that it doesn't say conviction, belief, but knowledge. One just has to know that this action is contrary to what God teaches, either by natural revelation or the Church. One does not get off the hook by simply saying, "Well, I'm not Catholic and so I'm just gonna listen to my teachers and if they are leading me astray I can just say I was following orders."
This highlighted by the next sentence: Feigned ignorance and hardeness of heart do not diminish, but rather inceras, the voluntary character of a sin."
In other words, if someone was feeling guilty about committing the sin of masterbation, and they just kept doing it till their conscience was seared so that they wouldn't feel guilty anymore, or decided to gather around them teachers that approved of his behavior, that itself could be a damnable offense.
This is highlighted in paragraph 1865 -"[Sin] results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and orrupt the concrete judgement of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself...but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root." (1865).
But in the end, only God and that individual knows the state of the individual's soul, understanding, intent, and conscience. In other words, only God and the person know the answer to the question, "Why did you do that action?"
All Catholics can do is warn them, which is what this post and Trent Horn's videos aim to do.
I actually did a longer post a few months ago about how a Protestant could end up going to hell because of actions that the Catholic Church condemns, even if that Protestant never stepped foot in a Catholic Church or ever learned about the Catholic Church.
Here it is: Are Ignorant Protestants Going to Hell?
You’re welcome! I don’t get many comments on my posts yet, so I gotta make sure I give top shelf responses so they come back for more 😜
Awesome! I think it is an excellent work of theology (obviously - I’m Catholic 🤷♂️) but even as a Protestant I thought it was amazing that it was written by multiple people and how consistent it was given they were from all over.
I know everyone recommends it but Fr Mike Schmitz catechism in a year is a great resource.
What denomination were you? I was born into a multi generational Baptist family, and still go to a Baptist church and even work at a Baptist camp, but I've been learning more about other denominations. Catholics are nothing like what I was told you are, and your apologists make good arguments.
I was raised Baptist as well. I attended Baptist churches most of my life. Ended up attending seminary at an evangelical seminary, where I first encountered Christian writers that were older than 100 years. It was also where I first encountered St Thomas Aquinas.
But I didn’t end up investigating until an about 5 years in Anglicanism, but it was my podcast that actually got me looking into Catholicism so I could do some episodes responding to its claims. A few months later, I found myself in an RCIA course. Takes time, and you should definitely just keep taking the steps that God puts in front of you. If you have any areas you want to dive deeper or questions you’re really wanting to get to the bottom of, let me know, and I can recommend some books or resources.
The oldest non Biblical Christian works I read as a kid/teen was Pilgrim's Progress, which is funny because my parents are anti Calvinist.
My journey so far is one YouTube video after another, and reading a lot of biographies and memoirs from different traditions. Earlier this year, I stepped into a Cathedral for the first time and the holiness of the place is hard to describe. I also stepped into an Orthodox shrine and felt the same way.
Thank you for the encouragement. I want to attend a mass in the next few months with a Catholic friend. I've only ever been to Baptist and Evangelical non-denominational services, and frankly the worship leaves a lot to be desired most of the time.
What do you think? I know there are Protestants that disagree with the Protestants in these videos. How do you think Protestants can get back on the same page on these ethical issues.
Thanks for reading! Don't forget to hit the like button (❤️)
Baptist, here. Isn't one of the conditions for a sin to be mortal is knowledge that it's a sin? If so, would that give some leeway to a Christian who was taught that something like masterbation was okay in certain circumstances?
Regardless, I appreciate the moral clarity the Catholic Church provides on sexual matters and in other areas, and wish more churches were like that.
Thanks for reading and commenting!
The point you're bringing up is referenced in paragraph 1860 of the catechism:
"Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense" but right after that it also says this, "But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man."
Many Catholics fail to fully communicate the risks associated with Protestants being outside the Church and the sins they are encouraged to commit. That is because they tend to completely ignore the Churches teaching on conscience, which is an individuals responsibility to cultivate. If a person does not seek the truth, that too can be a mortal sin.
If you go back a few paragraphs in the Catechism it says in paragraph 1859,
"Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knoweldge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law." Note, that it doesn't say conviction, belief, but knowledge. One just has to know that this action is contrary to what God teaches, either by natural revelation or the Church. One does not get off the hook by simply saying, "Well, I'm not Catholic and so I'm just gonna listen to my teachers and if they are leading me astray I can just say I was following orders."
This highlighted by the next sentence: Feigned ignorance and hardeness of heart do not diminish, but rather inceras, the voluntary character of a sin."
In other words, if someone was feeling guilty about committing the sin of masterbation, and they just kept doing it till their conscience was seared so that they wouldn't feel guilty anymore, or decided to gather around them teachers that approved of his behavior, that itself could be a damnable offense.
This is highlighted in paragraph 1865 -"[Sin] results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and orrupt the concrete judgement of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself...but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root." (1865).
But in the end, only God and that individual knows the state of the individual's soul, understanding, intent, and conscience. In other words, only God and the person know the answer to the question, "Why did you do that action?"
All Catholics can do is warn them, which is what this post and Trent Horn's videos aim to do.
I actually did a longer post a few months ago about how a Protestant could end up going to hell because of actions that the Catholic Church condemns, even if that Protestant never stepped foot in a Catholic Church or ever learned about the Catholic Church.
Here it is: Are Ignorant Protestants Going to Hell?
https://www.piousreflections.com/p/are-protestants-going-to-hell-assumptions
Many thanks for the detailed answer! The catechism is on my reading list for this year, along with other theological works.
You’re welcome! I don’t get many comments on my posts yet, so I gotta make sure I give top shelf responses so they come back for more 😜
Awesome! I think it is an excellent work of theology (obviously - I’m Catholic 🤷♂️) but even as a Protestant I thought it was amazing that it was written by multiple people and how consistent it was given they were from all over.
I know everyone recommends it but Fr Mike Schmitz catechism in a year is a great resource.
What denomination were you? I was born into a multi generational Baptist family, and still go to a Baptist church and even work at a Baptist camp, but I've been learning more about other denominations. Catholics are nothing like what I was told you are, and your apologists make good arguments.
I was raised Baptist as well. I attended Baptist churches most of my life. Ended up attending seminary at an evangelical seminary, where I first encountered Christian writers that were older than 100 years. It was also where I first encountered St Thomas Aquinas.
But I didn’t end up investigating until an about 5 years in Anglicanism, but it was my podcast that actually got me looking into Catholicism so I could do some episodes responding to its claims. A few months later, I found myself in an RCIA course. Takes time, and you should definitely just keep taking the steps that God puts in front of you. If you have any areas you want to dive deeper or questions you’re really wanting to get to the bottom of, let me know, and I can recommend some books or resources.
The oldest non Biblical Christian works I read as a kid/teen was Pilgrim's Progress, which is funny because my parents are anti Calvinist.
My journey so far is one YouTube video after another, and reading a lot of biographies and memoirs from different traditions. Earlier this year, I stepped into a Cathedral for the first time and the holiness of the place is hard to describe. I also stepped into an Orthodox shrine and felt the same way.
Thank you for the encouragement. I want to attend a mass in the next few months with a Catholic friend. I've only ever been to Baptist and Evangelical non-denominational services, and frankly the worship leaves a lot to be desired most of the time.